(210) The Photo Album: Volume 1 Issue 2: Last Revision: 09/02/02

Is it Real, or is it Memorex?

For our second issue of Mexican Coin Magic we are going back a few years to stimulate your memory.  Do you remember the old TV commercial, “Is it real or is it Memorex?”  Well we are going to show you some coins to get your opinion, “Are they real or are they…?”

We hope you have some fun with these and if you wish, you can fill out the questionnaire to see if you agree with our findings.  We will have what we believe are the correct answers next month, so stay tuned to Mexican Coin Magic.

And don’t forget to get busy with your camera, scanner and pencil to show us what you have? But for now, take a few minutes to enjoy what is here and just think about what you might see next time?

***

The first coin in our test has created a lot of controversy over the last few years when it first showed up at the Spink/Gerber Sale #2 in June 1996, Lot #265.  I originally saw the coin in December 1995 when at the first Gerber Sale.  I thought it was real then!  Most people, who hadn’t seen and held the coin thought it was a fake or a contemporary counterfeit, but I didn’t.  I didn’t attend the second sale, but instead had a well-known Mexican Specialty Dealer bid for me. 

Various collectors and dealers said they felt the coin was "all wrong" for the period, so very few people bid on the coin during the sale.  Prior to this, in 1987, Jamie Varon listed it and several other coins that most experts thought were questionable in his book about the Gerber Collection.  I asked several very knowledgeable dealers about these coins at that time (1987) and most agreed that they were probably fakes.  When Mike Dunigan, the dealer I had bidding on the coins called the night after he saw it, he too believed my assessment… it was real in his opinion.  He then asked what my maximum bid would be?  I answered; buy it, no matter the cost!  Later, before publishing Resplandores a second example that was much nicer came to light and both coins are pictured in Resplandores.  Now it is time to start the test? 

Question #1:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

O 1865 AE 8 Reales

Next let’s try your skills on several early Hooknecks.  The first one is a nice 1824 Durango Hookneck…

Question #2: 

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1824 RL Hookneck 8 Reales

Now a second 1824 Durango Hookneck …

Question #3:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1824 RL Hookneck 8 Reales

Next we go to Mexico City to look at another Hookneck, this time an 1824 Mexico City…

Question #4:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1824 JM Hookneck 8 Reales

Think you did all right?  Now we will test your skills with a few other 8 Reales beginning with the Chihuahua Mint and a couple of really rare 1866 8 Reales…

Question #5:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Ca 1866 MM Die Style #1 8 Reales

Question #6:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Ca 1866 MM Die Style #2 8 Reales

Next stop on this trip is the Culiacan Mint and a rather common coin an 1894 8 Reales…

Question #7:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Cn 1894 AM 8 Reales

Let’s see how you do in Durango for the next stop on our tour of the Mexican Republic mints, here we have a few of those earlier Paris Style dies for you to look at…

Question #8:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1832 RM Paris Dies 8 Reales

 Question #9:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

D_ 1833 RM Paris Dies 8 Reales

Question #10:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1834 RM Paris Dies #1 8 Reales

Question #11:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1834 RM Paris Dies #2 8 Reales

Question #12:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1839 RM Paris Dies 8 Reales

Question #13:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1839 RL Mexican Dies 8 Reales

Time to move on, so let’s head down to Estado de Mexico for a look at an 1829…

Question #14:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

EoMo 1829 LF 8 Reales

Up north we find the one of the largest and most productive of the Republican mints Guanajuato…

Question #15:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

G_ 1844 PM 8 Reales

Time to head to the far northwest part of Mexico and make a stop at Hermosillo…

Question #16:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Ho 1869 PR 8 Reales

 Time to head back to Mexico City again and check out a later date 8 Reales

Question #17:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1874 CP 8 Reales

Okay, we are nearing the end of our trip for the 8 Reales, so let’s see one more Oaxaca coin…

Question #18:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Ⓐ 1858 AE 8 Reales

Heading north we arrive at San Luis Potosi for a short visit and a couple 1836 8 Reales…

Question #19:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Pi 1836 JS “8Rs” Dies #1 8 Reales

 Question #20:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Pi 1836 JS “8Rs” Dies #2 8 Reales

Question #21:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Pi 1880 MR 8 Reales

We have finally reached our last stop gathering 8 Reales here at the great 8 Reales mint of Zacatecas…

Question #22:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Zs 1825 AZ 8 Reales

Question #23:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Zs 1834 OM 8 Reales

Do I see some hurt feelings out there?  You Republic 8 Escudo bums want to play the game too?  Well okay, it’s your turn and our first gold stop will be Culiacan…

Question #24:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

C 1871 CE 8 Escudos

Guess we should look in on Durango too…

Question #25:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Do 1859 CP 8 Escudos

Let’s swing over to Guanajuato and see what we can find…

Question #26:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1830 MJ 8 Escudos

Question #27:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1844 PM 8 Escudos

Question #28:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1852 PM 8 Escudos

Question #29:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1854 PF 8 Escudos

Question #30:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1862 YE 8 Escudos

Question #31:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Go 1868 YF 8 Escudos

Let’s head down to the capital city and see what we can find?

Question #32:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1855 GF 8 Escudos

Question #33:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1861 CH 8 Escudos

Question #34:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1863 CH 8 Escudos

Question #35:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1867 CH 8 Escudos

Had enough?  Or would you like to stop in Zacatecas?  Okay here we go…

Question #36:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Zs 1860 Mo 8 Escudos

Question #37:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Zs 1861 AL 8 Escudos

Had enough yet?  No, you Colonial collectors want to look at couple of Pillar Dollars?  Okay, here are two of the most controversial Mexican coins to ever show up and they trace their origins back to that little old treasure hunter Mel Fisher’s private collection.  These coins supposedly came from the 1733 Terra Firma Fleet that Fisher’s company, Treasure Salvors, found and salvaged.  After the SEC and the State of Florida started investigating Fisher, Mel tried to sell them in order to raise money to continue his search for the Nuestra Señora de Atocha during one of the many low points he had in his search. These particular two coins are well covered in Robert Daley’s book, Treasure, Chapter 16, published in 1977.  Early on every expert during that time looked at the coins including: Clyde Hubbard, Virgil Hancock, Hans M.F. Schulman, George Vogt and many others and they all came to the same conclusion, they were fakes.  Only a single expert, Eugene Lyon, Ph.D., thought the two coins were real and at that time he wasn’t a numismatist, so most people discounted his opinion.  Much later, Pradeau and the Calico brothers looked at individual coins from this same group and they came to the conclusion these coins were real, but I do not believe they ever saw these two coins.  Now it is up to you to decide…

Question #38:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1732 F 8 Reales

Question #39:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1732 MF 8 Reales

Last, but not least is a Test Pattern (pun intended).  This coin appeared in the Spink/Gerber #2 Auction in June 1996 and was Lot #443 and was cataloged as, “Regular dies off-metal strike of an 8-Escudos, Mexico City, 1861 CH, struck in silver (KM.Pn.61; Buttrey ___), cut on edge at 8 o’clock (obverse), otherwise good very fine.” Is this attribution correct, or did it fool the experts?

Question #40:

You are the judge, is it [_] Real [_] Fake [_] Contemporary Counterfeit?

Mo 1861 CH Pattern 8 Reales

This ends our little test for now, but if you would like more information about these coins contact us and maybe we will write an article on those that stimulate our reader’s interest?

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