(712) The Mexican Coin Answer Man: Volume 2 Issue 7: Last Revision: 05/31/06
We have had a few interesting questions to answer since the last issue:
First we have a correction to make to an old article
Ralphie, was reading your article on True Rarity and noticed you mentioned a 1 Real (Chihuahua?) bringing $6,500 and a Ca 2R bringing $12K. When did the sale for the 1R take place?
The Ca 1/2R I bought had a hammer price of $6,750 (with the juice and the agent's fee, it came to $8,150). Is that the one you were referring to when you said 1R?
Also, think we should add the Buyer's Fee when discussing a specific coin (or at least include a note "Plus 15% Buyer's Fee") as that, not the Hammer Price, is the actual Price Realized. In fact it could be more if there is an Agent's fee involved.
I made a big booboo in this article! Dave is correct, the coin in question was a Chihuahua ½ Real not a 1 Real.
Now to the questions for Issue #7:
Question #1: After reading the article, in issue five, about World Coin magazine I bought a number of issues on eBay. I found several articles and ads from them very interesting. I found two dealers who had extensive ads selling a number of very rare Mexican coins. Can you tell me anything about Melvine E. Came & Son or the General Merchandise Company of Hammond Louisiana?
Answer #1: Great question! However, I’m sorry that I can’t tell you very much about either one. This isn’t the first time we have been asked about General Merchandise Company by a reader. One of our regular readers sent us a couple of ads from this company we didn’t have that contained several extreme rarities from Mexico. He also wanted to know more about this company? We have searched the Internet with no results, and even talked to Richard Long, who lived in Louisiana during that time to no avail.
If any of our readers know anything about Melvine E. Came & Son or the General Merchandise Company of Hammond Louisiana, or have any auction catalogs, or fixed price lists from either we would love to hear from you.
Question #2: Recently I bid (a very high bid) on an unlisted Mexican Republic Mexico City 1 Escudo in a Stack’s/Coin Galleries Auction. When I checked with them to see if I won the coin I was told it was an error in the catalog and was really a ½ Escudo. Do you believe Stack’s is telling the truth or did they pull the coin and sell it to a well-known Mexican specialty coin dealer for a whopping price?
Answer #2: We had a number of questions about this coin from several readers. However, I can personally confirm this was an error in cataloging by Stack’s because when I received the catalog I called Stack’s. It took some time to convince them that they needed to pull this coin and look at it while I was on the phone. This was after I told them that I doubted the coin was genuine if it really was a 1 Escudo. Finally the gentleman I was talking to took the time to get the coin, look at it and say, “We are wrong, the denomination reads ½ E instead of 1 E”. So no, Stack’s was not pulling a Mexican Coin shenanigan this time.
Warning: Let me make a broad statement at this time, “If you run across an unlisted Mexican coin in any public auction, on eBay, or on a fixed price list … beware! Many times these listings are made in error, other times the coin in question may be a contemporary counterfeit or even a fake. If the coin is genuine and unlisted you will be very lucky to secure it at a bargain price because all series of Mexican coins have advanced collectors, and believe me these guys are not generally going to allow a coin of this caliber to slip by to a ‘bottom feeder’!”
Question #3:
What is the price of: 8 reales Libertad-
Republic of Mexico C.1882 J.D. coin in good condition.
Sincerely,
Sergio
Answer #3: Dear Sergio; Recently I sold the same coin (Date/Assayer/Mintmark) for $155, but and it is a BIG but, because mine was a Choice Uncirculated Specimen. I don't know how much you know about grading Mexican coins, because you said it was in Good Condition? A grade of Good for Mexican coins is a very low grade. If the coin is only Good, it is worth only "melt" silver value or about $7.50.
By the way the coin you described is a Culiacan Mint Mexican Republic Cap & Ray 8 Reales, I hope. These coins were made by 14 different Mexican mints from 1823 to 1897. While some are very common in low grades, others are very rare in high-grade.
If you want more information about your coin we would need to see a scan of it, if possible?
Thanks for your question and we hope we have been of help to you?
Ralph Poucher
Mexican Coin Magic
Question #4a: I have an 1834 Eagle. Does this coin have any value? What marks should I look for to determine if it is rare? Thanks Don B.
Answer #4a: Dear Don; Thanks for your question, but we need more information about your coin before we can figure out what you have.
a) Is it gold or silver?
b) Is it a Mexican coin or a US coin?
c) What denomination is the coin? You mentioned or called it an 1834 Eagle; this could mean it is a US Gold 1834 $10.00 gold piece?
If it is a Mexican coin we can help, if it is some other type we won't be of much service. If it is a Mexican coin look at the coin. Does it have an Eagle on one side? If so it should say, in the legend "REPUBLICA MEXICANA". If it does, turn it over and look at the writing (Legends) on the other side. Tell us what they say and describe what is on that side. Is there a Book with a Hand on it or is there a Cap with sun rays under it? Now tell us what the legends say.
Once you give us a little more information about the coin we will try to tell you more about the coin.
Ralph Poucher
Question #4b: Thank you for your response. The coin is silver and is Mexican. It is an 8 reales. It has an eagle on one side and a cap with sunrays on the other. The date is 1834. Does it have value? Thanks, Don B
Answer #4b:
Hello Don, thanks for
your question and am sorry about the delay in getting back to you, have been out
of town for a few days.
The 1834 8R was struck at 7 different mints:
Chihuahua - Ca
Durango - Do
Guadalajara - Ga
Guanajuato - Go (o inside the lop of the G
Mexico City - Mo (o is centered above the M)
San Luis Potosi - Pi
Zacatecas - Zs
The Chihuahua had two different assayers (the letters immediately following the
date), MR and AM. Both are Rare and worth at least $125 even in low grade. The
higher the grade, the more the value. None of the others struck that year are
considered Rare. Retail values for those more common pieces would range from $12
in low grade to about $250 in Choice Uncirculated.
Dave Busse
Numismatist
Mexican Coin Magic
Question #5: I read your article on your website. Can you give me info on this two fake Mexican coin of mine. Thank you very much.
Answer #5: Both are fairly easy to identify and quite common. The one with the hole is made of copper. All genuine Republic of Mexico 8R issued for circulation were struck in silver. The second is supposed to be an 8R struck in Durango, however, the "Style" is wrong and there was no Assayer R.I. that served at the Durango Mint.
There are counterfeit collectors of such pieces. The holed piece might bring a few dollars while the Durango Fake would probably fetch between $4 and $6. We hope the above information was helpful.
Dave Busse
Numismatist
Mexican Coin Magic
Question #6: Subject: have two 8 reales Cap and Rays 1859 FH coins BU
Good morning have two 8 reales Cap and Rays 1859 FH coins BU , I was wondering how much you would pay for these. I am not sure on their worth. Thank you, waiting for your reply.
Roland
Answer #6: Hello Roland, the 2 Mexico City 8R could be worth (retail) anywhere from about $45 to about $150 depending on how nice. The 1859 is a Hoard Coin, and does come nice. Without seeing the actual coin, it would be difficult to be more specific as to the retail value. Dealers would pay somewhat less than retail.
Dave Busse
Numismatist
Mexican Coin Magic
Question #7: I am Rommel _____, a collector/dealer From the Philippines. Can you share to me any info with regards to the rarity and the value of my coins that I recently purchased (attached). It is 1867 Pi LR 8 Reales, 1851 Do JMR 8r, 1870 Ga IC 8R. I hope you can share something for me. Thank you. Rommel
Answer #7: We are still studying these coins and do not yet have an opinion as there value or if they are genuine.
Question #8:
Hello--
I have what I believe to be a Mexican silver dollar. Since I don't have an
operable scanner, I'll give you a description:
It is 37 mm. in diameter with ridges around the perimeter. One side has a
representation of an eagle standing on a cactus with one leg. The eagle's head
is turned toward the left, and it's holding what appears to be a ribbon in it's
mouth and in it's other foot (the one not on the cactus). It says "Republica
Mexicana" around the top, and there are branches with leaves around the bottom,
with what appears to be a rock in the bottom center.
The other side shows something in the center that looks like a cap with the word
"Libertad" on it. Around this is a sunburst effect. Around the bottom is : * 8
R . Z . 1 8 2 8. A. O. 1 O D . 2 0 G . It is a little worn in spots. Appears
to be tarnished silver.
I don't have a proper scale, but the coin is weighty.
Can you tell me what this coin is and how much it is worth?
Thanks so much,
Melissa
Answer #8: Hello Melissa, thank you for your interest in Mexican Coin Magic and your question.
Your coin is a Mexican Ocho Reales represented by the "8R" on the Cap Side Legend. Often referred to as a Piece of Eight, it was the equivalent of a US silver dollar and was in fact the basis for our silver dollar (by US law) until 1857. After that the US silver dollar contained slightly less silver than did the Mexican 8R.
The Zs (it should have a superscript "s" to he upper right of the Z) stands for Zacatecas, which was the mint in which it was struck. Obviously the date is 1828. A.O. are the initials of the assayer, probably Adalco, but we are not sure. The 10Ds 20Gs tells us the fineness of the metal. The Real system used Dineros as a Fineness designator. Pure silver was 12 Dineros and each Dinero was divided into 24 Granos. Thus, the 10Ds 20Gs meant 10/12 plus 20/24 of 1 out of a possible 12. Converting that to the decimal system shows that the silver Fineness was 90.027% with the remainder being copper. Until the US went off the silver standard our coins contained 90% silver and 10% copper. The standard weight for your coin is 27.07 grams, which could vary slightly as the minting processes were not always exact in those days. The standard diameter should be 39 mm but again that could vary slightly from mint to mint and from year to year or even from one set of dies to another.
The Eagle Side is represented by the ancient Aztec Victory Symbol which is an Eagle perched on a Nopal Cactus rising out of Lake Texcoco (the lake beside which Mexico City was founded). The Eagle is grasping a water snake in its beak and one of its claws. That design first appeared in 1823 and continues to be used on Mexican coins today though it is somewhat more stylized on modern issues.
The coin is "Somewhat Common" according to the Dunigan-Parker work, RESPLANDORES - Cap and Rays 8 Reales of the Republic of Mexico 1823 - 1897. According to current Pricing Catalogs the Retail Value would range from about $15 in Fine Condition to about $165 in Uncirculated condition. Dealers would pay somewhat less for it as they would intend to sell it at retail. You should check the date closely as it might be an 1828/7, meaning the last 8 in the date is punched over a 7. That would make it more valuable, perhaps twice the above figures. For the more common Republic of Mexico coins condition is everything. True Uncirculated pieces command significantly more than do circulated examples. However, there are Rare to Excessively Rare coins that fetch high prices in just about any condition, one example would be the Durango (Mint) One Real (1/8 of an 8 Reales) struck in 1824, currently there are about 20 known examples and none are in high grade.
We hope this information has been helpful.
Again thank you for your interest,
Dave Busse
Numismatist
Mexican Coin Magic
Until next time, may all of your finds be great.
[Home Page] Return to Mexican Coin Magic Home Page