(802) The Front Page: Volume 2 Issue 8: Last Revision: 05/26/07

News and Commentaries on Mexican Coins

 

Latest News From Long Beach

Emails are pouring in about the auctions before and during the Long Beach Show. Three public auctions had significant Mexican coins this year that all serious collectors need to be aware of and make notes. Some of the prices realized are eye-openers to say the least!

 

World-Wide Coins of California Auction#51

The first Pre-Long Beach sale was a mail bid only sale by Jim Elmen that closed on May 17, 2007.  Elmen's sale contained 23 lots of Mexican material beginning with Lot #254, a Carlos and Joanna 4 Reales graded toned Extra Fine and ended with Lot #276 a toned Choice aUnc Culiacan Cn 1904 RP silver 1 Peso. In between these two lots were some very nice coins including several choice pieces. Here is a sampling of the Mexican coins in the sale:

Lot#255

Lot#260

Lot#263

Lot#264

Lot#266

Lot#267

Lot#268

Lot#273

 

Ira & Larry Goldberg Pre-Long Beach Ancient & World Coin Auction #41

It seems, to an interested bystander, that the Goldbergs are once again taking a leading position in Mexican coins, especially if this sale is any indication. Once I discovered the sale on the Internet, again we didn't receive a catalog, I had to call Larry to get the scoop on the Mexican coins in the sale. Goldberg told me they were part of a collection that was formed many years ago and that the owner had taken note of the advancing prices for good Mexican coins, so he assumed it was time to sell.  Goldberg inferred that this was a test, and there might be more in the future?

 

The ancient and foreign coin portion of this Goldberg blockbuster live auction started with session three at 1:00 PM on May 28 and ended with the afternoon session six at 3:00 Pm on May 29.  To say there were some nice Mexican coins would be an vast understatement. The first Mexican coin was Lot#3629, a NGC AU-55 Carlos and Johana 4 Reales and the Mexican silver and copper continued to Lot#3680, a NGC Fine-15 countermarked cast Mo 1810 HJ War of Independence 8 Reales.  The Mexican gold killer coins started with Lot#4692, a Mexico City 1714 2 Escudo Cob graded NGC MS-64 and ended with Lot#4789, a Oaxaca 1915 gold 10 Peso graded NGC AU-53.

 

There are almost too many great rarities to mention in this sale, but let me give you just a few to wet your appetite:

Lot#3630 a Mexico City NGC AU-53 Mo 1732 F 8 Reales; estimate $35,000-$45,000

Lot#3652 a Durango NGC MS-63 Do 1825 RL 8 Reales; estimate $1,000-$1,250

Lot#3653 a Guanajuato NGC AU-58 Go 1866 Maximilian silver 1 Peso; estimate $2,000-$2,500

Lot#4693 a Mexico City NGC MS-61 Mo 1733 F 8 Escudo; estimate $12,500-$15,00

Lot#3653 a

 

             

Heritage World & Ancient Coin Auction #440

Every Mexican Republic minor silver collector was blown away by two spectacular Chihuahua minor reales in this sale. It was reminiscent of the Ponterio & Associates Sale # when two other choice mint state Chihuahua silver minors crossed the auction block back in 20__. The two coins in the Ponterio sale both set records for the public sale of Republican silver minors and the pre-sale consensus was the two Heritage coins could possibly break these previous records..

  

 

News From CICF'07

My computer has been a buzz today (04/30/07), emails are flooding in from people reporting the second Ponterio Sale of the Santa Clara Collection was a whooping success! Congratulations Rick and Mike. As I thought The Book, Resplandores, and the Internet have awaken serious collectors to the Mexican Republic Cap & Ray 8 Reales.  One of my little birds, in the bushes, said he was amazed at the prices paid for not only the extreme rarities, patterns, and ultra high-grade material, but all of the varieties listed in The Book, which saw spirited bidding.   Another of my tattletales said common date true Choice BUnc 8 Reales sold for $150 to over $250, which represents at least a 100% price increase from a couple of years ago.  There were also reports of some nice Republican Gold changing hands on the bourse floor. Hopefully more complete info in the next issue.

 

Sorry We’re Late! Xcuses, Excuses, and more Excuses.

Let me apologize for the tardiness of Issue #8. But I have excuses, many excuses. First, the “age old” one you hear so many times … I had computer problems. I have owned three computers for years because I’m deathly afraid of losing hard earned data. Once, in another lifetime, I was in the computer business so I know how important it is to backup my data files of 25+ years of research.

 

But in a period of three weeks all three of my computers crashed for different reasons. Living in paradise, Port Isabel deep in south Texas near the Mexican border, has a few problems. Good computer technical support down here is almost impossible to find. My computer guru lives near Fort Worth, 600+ miles away, my Internet guru lives near Seattle another world away. After ten or so weeks, three trips to south Texas and back to Fort Worth, many thousands of dollars, and untold frustration I now have three new mega computers up and running. Have no fear about the future because we now have three computers that are juiced up and ready for the task at hand for a couple of years, I hope.

 

My second excuse is simple: as we tried to finish Part II of our series about the Mexican Republic silver minors covering the 2 and 4 Reales and I ran into a big snag. Even though the earlier article was difficult and very time consuming, the new one about the 2 and 4 Reales is a killer. After beginning my basic research I found current information available about these coins is non-existent. I traveled up north and spent a couple of days looking through a large collection of hundreds of 2 and 4 Reales. I borrowed what I thought would be enough coins to complete the article. Then I received Rick Ponterio’s Sale#139 catalog and realized I didn’t get everything I needed for the 4 Reales. I phoned the owner of the collection and after much begging and pleading, and the promise of a fishing trip he finally agreed to bring down the balance of his coins. It was now late September and I was just getting started. After weeks of work I decided that what I really needed to do was to build a FoxLair Reference Collection for the 2 and 4 Reales in order to properly write the article.

 

So with all of this underway I finally looked at the calendar, and realized I wouldn’t get this job completed before 2007 began. After a panic phone call to Kirk Menczer I finally got him to agree to write a new feature article for Issue #8. As usual I’m sure you will enjoy Kirk’s efforts. The second installment about the Mexican Republic silver minor reales will be in Issue #9.  By the way the FoxLair Mexican Republic 4 Reales Reference Collection should be available sometime during May or June 2007 and the 2 Reales later in the fall, if you are interested. [See] FoxLair Press Release 

 

The final excuse: I’ve been having some health problems. First with my eyes, a blind numismatist isn’t a good thing. My doctor finally completed the surgery on both of my eyes in late March 2007 and there is a six-week recovery period. I’m now waiting for an appointment to get new glasses. Second, like other old men I’ve been having some prostrate problems and one Saturday morning I awoke at 3:00 AM and couldn’t pee. This went all day and finally my wife called my urologist at 5:20 PM, he told me to go to the emergency room of our nearest hospital about 45 minutes away. I arrived at 6:35 PM, to make a long story short I ended up leaving with a catheter and travel bag. I wore this thing for the next 15 days, which isn’t any fun. Guys if you are over 50 years old don’t make the same mistake I did; go see a good urologist before it’s too late.

 

So now with new computers, good eyes and a pee-pee that works properly, hopefully we can get back on a reasonable publishing schedule?

 

What Are We Doing Wrong?

We have questions weekly about why don’t we write about this or that? One reader thinks we should do an article about mint errors. Another wants an article about chop marks on late 8 Reales. Several wonder why we have nothing about the Modern Mexican coins. Others have requested articles about contemporary counterfeits and modern fakes. More than a few want information about Colonial coins. One of our most frequent requests is for additional grading info by mint. It goes on and on. New and old collectors alike want more information about the Mexican coins that they are interested in collecting. Additionally I’ve had many complaints about not keeping to the intended publishing schedule. 

 

I’m having big-time problems getting other Mexican Coin Collectors to share information and write articles for Mexican Coin Magic. I know most of you Mexican Coin Nuts are busy, all of you aren’t retired like me, but I need help in order to expand the scope of this Internet publication. Before the summer of 2006 Kent Ponterio promised to pen an article for each issue of Mexican Coin Magic, but so far nada. I received an email from “Pepe”, better known as Joe Flores, who offered to write about the Mexican Revolutionary Period. I emailed him back several times telling him we would love for him to do a column for every issue, since then, nada.

 

Recently I have been informed there are certain people, coin dealers and collectors alike, who are pressuring others (collectors and dealers) not to help with this website or the other projects I’m involved in trying to create.  These same people don’t want this website to continue. They don’t want any more FoxLair Reference Collections finished and published. And they damn sure don’t want us to do our planned surveys of the collectors.

 

I have received well over a hundred emails from all over the world telling me how great this website is for collectors (both new and old-timers). A few of these emails are from people I have known for years, but the majority are from people (collectors and want-a-be collectors) who crave information about Mexican coins that were completely unknown to me before the website started.

 

The information found on this website is free for one and all. This isn’t a coin club that charges dues. This isn’t a coin collector’s association that charges dues. This isn’t a coin society that charges dues. The collector-writers who spend their time and effort to write this material don’t get paid a “dime” for their submissions; they do it because they want to help others become better and more knowledgeable collectors.

 

Because of the pressure being exerted by the people wanting to squelch this website new information and articles from other collectors is being withheld or even withdrawn before it is published here. I feel the people responsible are being shortsighted because good information about Mexican coins and the history behind them is needed for collectors to proceed from being only casual collectors to becoming advanced or knowledgeable collectors.             

 

So if you have an area where you have experience, expertise, and would like to share it with other Mexican coin collectors worldwide, why not contact us. And tell the world about your passion.

  

Richard A Long is Retiring from Mexican Numismatics?

Most of you already know that after a long (pun intended) and great career, Richard Long has decided to close his coin auction business. When I spoke to Richard about this he told me he needed more time to work on his books, both in the numismatic and philatelic (stamp) areas, and he was tired of doing the time consuming work of producing catalogs and fixed price lists. He did however state he would continue to dabble in Mexican coins by advising, buying, and selling a few collections from his old clientele in order to help the hobby.  I would personally like to thank Richard for all of his work helping me personally in the past 20+ years.    

 

The World’s Greatest Cap & Ray 8 Reales Collection

The Ponterio Family completed the first of the three part of the sale of this fantastic Cap & Rays 8 Reales collection. I didn’t personally attend the first sale but reports from our sources said the sale was well attended and that many of the coins sold returned to Mexico after being held prisoner in the U.S. for way too long. Some people thought bargains were easy to find, and yet others claimed that the overall prices were higher than they expected.  If you look at the prices realized I’m sure you can draw your own conclusions.

No matter what your conclusions are about the first sale, I believe the next two sales will see a major upswing in prices as this collection has some really great coins that haven’t been seen on the public market in years, if ever.

The Cap & Ray 8 Reales Market Today

Unlike Mexican Republic Gold we haven’t had a recent benchmark public auction for the Cap & Ray 8 Reales. The last “great” public auction of this series occurred in 1997 well before the upswing in Mexican coin prices.

This is the first truly public sale of a great Cap & Ray 8 Reales collection since the J.B. Parker Collection sale in 1997. Let me stress the word public because another great collection, the Jamie Varon Collection, has been dispersed both by “Private Treaty” and in a series of very subdued public auctions. And believe me, “This happens all of the time with the ‘great’ collections of Mexican coins.”

Since “The Book”, Resplandores, about the Cap & Ray 8 Reales series was published in 1996 much has happened in the world of Cap & Ray 8 Reales!  Some very good, and some very bad things have occurred. I personally believe Parker got ripped when he sold his collection, but more about this in a later article in The Soap Box column of MCM.

There is no doubt the total number of Cap & Ray 8 Reales collectors have greatly increased since “The Book” was published. The big question is what kind of collectors?  Some believe we are seeing a whole new group of great collectors in the making. Others believe most are just casual collectors. Beyond a doubt “The Book” helped create these new collectors, but the main source of these new collectors came about with advent of the daily Internet auctions. Many believe these new Internet collectors are the future “great” collectors.     

Others point out that the new Cap & Ray collectors fostered by eBay and other Internet auctions sites are primarily “newbies” and/or perhaps only “bottom feeders”. The recent sale, on eBay, of a very nice PI 1860 MC 8 Reales seems to back up this theory somewhat. Once I found the listing for this coin I called an active, and advanced Cap & Ray collector telling him about the coin. He was not thrilled that the coin was located in Argentina, but I told him I had bought coins from this source before and he was an okay guy.  We then discussed the value of this specimen. I informed him I had sold my specimen years ago for $18,000. While the latest coin wasn’t as nice as the other one … it was still a very nice example of an extreme rarity. I told him I thought it would sell cheaply and it was easily worthy of a minimum $5,000 bid. He ended up purchasing it for his opening bid of $1,990.

What does this prove?

I believe there are many collectors of Cap & Ray 8 Reales who are warily of extreme rarities from this series not located in the US or Mexico. And there is good reason for this because of the many fakes (generally altered dates) currently being produced in Hong Kong and China that appear almost daily on eBay and other Internet sites. In fact Stack’s was recently fooled by a number of these fakes in a sale that was already cataloged and had to withdraw a large number of them before the sale began. However, most of these fake coins are either low-grade examples or funny looking high-grade specimens without a lot of high quality mint luster, and many times the coins do not have the proper design or styles.

Most of the coins in the Santa Clara Collection (a name for this collection I have coined to protect the anonymity of its current owner) being sold by Ponterio are coins that have a long and very traceable pedigree and believe me; many have come from other great collections. Many have been purchased at past public auctions and a few were record prices for those DAMs. Others have been purchased in private treaty sales from highly respected dealers or other long-term collectors. Additionally some of the great rarities in this collection have never been seen at public action before because this collector has been Numero Uno on most Mexican Specialty Dealers Lists for many years and money has never interfered with his purchases in the past.

Because of the above mentioned conditions and because the Ponterio family is cataloging and selling the collection, all collectors can feel confident that all of the coins being offered are genuine. Therefore, the Santa Clara Collection sales will become “The Benchmark” for the Cap & Ray 8 Reales; just like the J.B. Parker collection did, for the next 10 years or more.

The only question remaining is: What will the “new” benchmark be? Will we see an overall spike in prices for Cap & Ray 8 Reales, or is the numismatic market still soft for this series?  Only time will tell, and that time is quickly approaching.

Along these lines I would like to tell you I have experienced a much greater interest and huge increase in the sales of the FoxLair Mexican Republic Cap & Rays Reference Collection coins. When I ended my long pursuit of this series I had 15+ double row boxes of 8 Reales in my main collection, plus about 350 dupes. Last week after having four visiting collectors I’m down to only six double row boxes and a few dupes. In my personal opinion the market for nice coins from this series is great.  However, I can now fully understand why coin dealers hate building catalogs or creating fixed price lists, as it is so time consuming.  (See Items for Sale 813a)      

More Problems With International Money!

During one week in February I received 10+ emails from coin dealers, the ANA, the ANS and people I didn’t know about problems of importing and exporting coins from Cyprus and Greece. Now that the attention has shifted from Mexican coins to ancient coins everyone is worried about the mess our politicians are creating. Hey people out there in electronic LaLa Land you need to contact your legislators, no matter what country you live in, and tell them “coins, no matter when they were made, or where they were made, are not national treasures, they are only the implements of commerce!”  If you coin collectors are not willing to get involved in this sticky problem you will soon find out how bad politicians can screw up our hobby!

A simple tip for all of you people in the US to help prove this point, Tell your legislators that you want them to demonetize all of our national treasure $100 bills in Russia and the Far East. I promise you this will get their full attention.

It’s up to you to do something before it is too late…        

Mexican Coin Auction News:

2006 turned out to be just a so-so year for all but a few public auctions. As usual eBay was “a blaze” with bargains in many series of Mexican coins. In my humble opinion the steady advance in Mexican coin prices is beginning to bring out lots of new, and good material, and this trend seems to be building steam for 2007. One advanced collector of 10 Centavos purchased over 10 choice specimens during his winter stay in South Texas, the greatest number of new additions he has made in years. 

 

Ponterio & Associates Sale#139Sale

While the highlight of Mexican coins for this Ponterio Sale was the first offering of the Santa Clara Collection Cap & Rays 8 Reales, one must not overlook the fantastic group of Republican Cap & Ray 4 Reales that were offered too.

This group of 200+ Cap & Ray 4 Reales, also from the Santa Clara Collection, was the largest public offering from this series in many years. Several 4 Reales collectors filled a number of holes in their collections, and many more were snapped up by a couple of dealers. Again prices were rather spotty and many sold at bargain prices.

Richard A. Long Sale#99

Richard’s last auction was a blockbuster if you look at the overall quality of the Mexican coins offered. I personally purchased many extreme rarities for the FoxLair Reference Collections, and for a couple of collectors that are customers of mine from several series.

 

Heritage Auction Galleries

The Heritage NYINC 2007 Sale again shows the interest that Steve Ivy and his boys have in World Coins because this sale includes two world catalogs.

 

Additional Auction Sales

Both Duane Douglas and Alberto Hidalgo have had a couple of sales in 2006 and early 2007 that had some really good coins. If you are interested in any Mexican series you should get on both of their mailing lists. 

That’s all for now…

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