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(1012) The Mexican Coin Answer Man: Volume 2 Issue 10: Last Revision: 12/31/07

We have had over 90 emails with comments, questions, offers to sell and/or buy coins since Issue #9 of MCM. We have been trying to answer each and every one of them, sometimes belatedly, but we have gotten way behind this time. Some of you will find your answers here, others we have already sent answers to by email. I hope our readers will bear with us in our tardiness this time, but we have had several large collections of minor republican coins loaned to us to add to the FoxLair Reference Collections since we began our series of articles about the minor Cap & Ray silver coins. We are obligated to try to turn these collections around and send them back to their owners as quickly as possible. So we have been very busy since Issue 9 was published.

I personally receive over 100 emails a week, during slow weeks, and Dave Busse gets almost as many, so we sometimes get a little back logged answering them. Let me give all of our readers a hint on how to speed up the process of asking questions, submitting articles, etc., so we can hopefully expedite your emails in the future. If you have a Question, a Comment, or a Suggestion on how to improve our website and you want an answer quickly; please submit it to Mcmanswers@aol.com. If you want to submit an article for publication, or contact us about being added to the mailing or email list, or something else that isn’t a question, please send your email to MexCoinMagic@aol.com. If you want to buy something we have for sale; books, auction catalogs or coins, or want us to make an offer for your coins, or other items please direct your email to FoxLairAJ@aol.com. And hopefully we can get back to you in a reasonable amount of time in the future.

Here are some of the more interesting comments, and questions with our answers from our readers since Issue 9.

Dear Ralph,

Good to hear I'm on the list!

At the moment, I am packing up my whole library into boxes, because we will be moving to our new home in December. However, I would be more than happy to be able to contribute to your journal as soon as I am all set.

In the meantime, there are a couple of comments that come to my mind after reading some of the articles. If you wish, I could express my thoughts, and you may decide whether to publish them or maybe have me expand into a full article.

My first comment refers to your article 811, the question whether you should publish new findings you made during your work at the FoxLair references.

It is my strong opinion that one of the main objects of a Mexican numismatic journal, such as the Boletín or the USMexNA Journal, should be the publication of new discoveries, complete with photo, description, and, if need be, the discussion among experts of the importance and validity of the find.

It would then be up to the makers of catalogs, be it Krause/Mishler, FoxLair or the ones coming out of Mexico, to decide whether they will update their products accordingly. Obviously, the more specialized the cataloguer’s want their work to be, the more important it would be for them to include new information. No serious collector of Republican 8 Reales will use Krause/Mishler simply because it is not really useful for him!

In your case, the cataloguer of FoxLair and the publisher of Mexican Coin Magic are the same person, and there is a trade-off between giving away information for free and wanting to promote the catalog.

But in my opinion, it is easy to differentiate. Informing the public of the existence of a coin is part of the journal (education of fellow numismatists), making detailed statements on population, auction appearances and pricing would be part of the catalog (providing collectors with information on which they can base their buying and selling decisions).

By the way, there were two (of the) rarer 8 Reales in the Georg Foerster Collection sold in Germany last week. Might be something for your reference. In case you haven't seen it, here are the links:
http://tinyurl.com/3bue9m
http://tinyurl.com/2p3lpd

It doesn't show well, but the Chihuahua coin was heavily polished, I guess that's why it didn't sell.

With best regards,
Ralf

Just finished Early Mex Rep, A Country in Chaos. Fantastic! A treat, which is interesting, informative and fast moving. Keep the historical summaries coming, I love them.

A short article possibility for MCM. I got a kick out of making these holders, and others might use this idea, also.

Publishers Note: See (1007b) and (1007c) The Soap Box in this issue for the information about Karl’s holders and his article about the third party grading services and his experiences with them.

I was pleased to win the 1859 (9/8?) MC/PS San Luis Potosi Eight Reales from the recent Ponterio auction. Thought you would appreciate a close up for your studies. This indeed is the plate variety coin from DP.

I enjoy your digital magazine very much. I recently completed the first phase of some research in the Republic 8 Reales series, which might be of general interest as an article in a future volume. This is attached.

I found in my attic a coin it says----- on the front Estados Unidos Mexicanos 1959 ----on the back it says---Veinte Pesos 15 Gr oro Puro

Is this coin worth any money; it looks like gold.

Mr. Hunt

It appears, from your description, that you have a Mexico City 1959 gold 20 Pesos coin that is generally worth about gold melt prices, unless it is gem quality. This coin contains one half ounce of .900 pure gold (oops ... another booboo, this coin contains only .4823 of an once of gold), which should allow you to determine its value in today's volatile gold market.

Hello, good job on your website, lots of info. I tried to register but the form is not working.

We have been having all kinds of problems with trying to create an interactive collector sign-up form in the past. Hopefully this problem has been resolved in Issue 10. Here is the hyper link to the form (14). Sorry for all of the trouble we have put you and our other readers to in the past.

Hi there. Frankly, I'm baffled. I've exhausted nearly every avenue I can think of and hope you can help me. From the looks of your website I think you might know what these coins are.

My mother purchased two Mexican gold coins some years ago and I am trying to find out more about them. We have several gold 50 pesos and a 20 gold peso, too, so know these coins are not the traditional pesos. They are as follows:

Coin #1: Approx. the size of a gold 50 peso. The obverse of this gold coin has a man on a horse (Porfirio Diaz?). Below the horse is the word 'Puebla'. There is a stack of canon balls, a canon, and cactus in the foreground. In the background are buildings. The date '1862' appears on the coin as well. The reverse has 'Cenpenario Heroica Batalla Del 5 De Mayo' around the edge. An eagle with a serpent in its beak and talons is in the center.

Coin #2: This coin is closer to the gold 20 Peso size. It, too, appears to be commemorating the Battle of Puebla as it has '1862' embossed on it. The obverse side has a bust of a man I believe to be Diaz. The reverse has the eagle, too, and 'Estandos Unidos Mexicano' embossed as well.

Thank you for your help in this mystery! As I said, I couldn't find anything online about these coins/medallions. They are in wonderful condition - easily AU or better.

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions, but as explained above we have been extremely busy lately. Your medals can be found in Frank Grove's classic three volume works about the many medals created in Mexico since the colonial times. Your two medals, with pictures and information about them can be found on pages 150-151 in Mexican Medals Volume II 1821-1971.

These medals were issued to commemorate the 100th year anniversary of the famous May 5th 1862 Battle fought at Pueblo where the Mexican Federal forces fought French troops loyal to Maximilian. The general pictured on the medals is not Porfirio Diaz, but General Ignacio Zaragoza, the hero of this battle. This battle is the reason for the holiday Cinco de Mayo that is celebrated both in Mexico and the US by most people of Mexican decent, and is just as important as July 4th is for Americans.

I'm unsure of the value of either medal in today's market, but Grove states that only 22,614 total gold medals were struck commemorating this battle and there were four different gold medals issued, so all have to be considered to be at least scarce.

I just found out that you in the recent past had an auction about Mexican republic 8 reales recovered from the ship The Rooswijk.

If you are having more items form this shipwreck please inform me on email: gijs.steeghs@12move.nl

Do you still have the auction catalogue of: Ten conjunction with the Anaheim coin and collectables expo September 8^th 2006 in California?

Somehow you have confused our website with someone else’s website, more than likely Rick Ponterio and Ponterio & Associates, as we haven’t had and don’t plan to have any coin auctions in the future. You can contact the Ponterio clan at coins@ponterio.com or their website is located at www.ponterio.com.

Hello,

My name is Scott Tappa, representing Krause Publications, publisher of Numismatic News, World Coin News, and the Standard Catalog line of coin pricing books. I’m writing on behalf of NumisMaster, our company’s new online coin pricing database and news source. If you have not yet looked around NumisMaster, I encourage you to do so, we are proud of what we’ve built and believe it’s a terrific vehicle for bringing coin collecting into the Web 2.0 era.

We are looking to develop reciprocal link partners, and I was wondering if your site would be a candidate to link to NumisMaster (www.numismaster.com). Please let me know and we can set up a link to your site from our Links page. Also, if your site offers advertising opportunities, please let me know.

Thank you,

Scott Tappa
NumisMaster
scott.tappa@fwpubs.com
Put your money where your mouse is — visit http://www.numismaster.com

I’m sorry for the delay in answering your email, but we have been up to our necks in swamp water lately and the alligators are nipping at our butts. We are always interested in building relationships with other websites dealing with numismatics. I can truthfully say that I haven’t yet had time to visit your website yet, but I hopefully will over the Christmas Holidays.

Thanks for the offer. Tell us what the next step is and we will give it a go.

Recently we had an inquiry from a lady named Norma about the values of a group of coins she inherited from a deceased relative. After a couple of emails and phone conversations she sent us an inventory of her coins. Because most were modern Mexican coins I turned her list over to Dave Busse, one of our resident experts to answer Norma’s question. Here is Dave’s reply…

Thank you for sending us – Mexican Coin Magic – the list of coins that your father had collected. Unfortunately, the Mexican coins as well as the other Latin American pieces are worth very little from a numismatic standpoint. We cannot speak for the European, Asian, or Canadian coins as we have very little expertise in those areas.

First, let me explain that it is impossible to give you an exact figure as to what we think a specific coin is worth unless we can examine the coin “in the flesh” so to speak. Your Mexican coins are modern issues and most collectors avoid them unless they are in Mint State condition meaning they have absolutely no wear or damage from circulation and have not been cleaned. The ad you sent from an October 15, 1975 issue of COIN WORLD is a good example of what I mean. The coin that the dealer was willing to pay $700 for was a 1974 $10 (10 pesos) piece. What the ad did not state is that the coin he wanted was not a regular circulation issue 1974 $10. What the dealer wanted was a Proof issue, which had not yet been announced by the Mexico City Mint and it was thought that only 10 pieces had been struck. As it turned out several hundred of the Proof pieces were struck and today the proof coin today is worth about $75. A regular issue 1974 $10 in CHOICE MINT STATE might fetch a dollar in the US and probably less in Mexico. When it is circulated it as well as other modern devalued issues are bought and sold by the pound. Usually dealers will pay 50¢ a pound for such coins and sell them for a dollar a pound. Other examples would include (dealer buy prices if true Mint State [uncirculated]):

Most of those on pages 4, 6-10 are like the ones mentioned above and sold by the pound when circulated.

A few of your coins contain some silver, though it is actually the base metal in them – meaning it is less than 50% of the metal content. Those are:

I’m not sure if you taken them to a dealer, Ralph did not mention it when he asked me to evaluate the list. If you did, I suspect that a dealer would offer somewhere around $40-50 US for the entire lot.

The coins you father collected are exactly why we at Mexican Coin Magic encourage collectors who collect coins with the thought that when they decide to dispose of their holdings they will at least break even on their investment to buy the book before they buy the coin and to develop a collecting strategy before investing any significant amount.

That would include purchasing coins in as high a grade as one can afford. For example, there is always a significant jump in value between a circulated and an uncirculated coin no matter how rare it is. For example, in the Republic of Mexico, there is a un real (equivalent of a 12½¢ piece) that was struck at the Durango Mint in 1824. Today there are about 20 pieces known to exist. Those coins sell for a minimum of $5,000 in any grade. If one existed in Mint State, and it’s almost a certainty that there are no surviving Mint State examples, it would easily bring $50,000+. Some times the percentage jump is even greater with a common coin. There are several Republic of Mexico coins that are found rather easily in circulated condition but are very difficult to locate in Mint State such as a 2 reales struck at the Guanajuato Mint in 1828. When well circulated it usually brings more than $5-10. However, I would pay $300 or more for an uncirculated specimen depending on how nice (also refer to the 1942 5¢ of yours that is mentioned above, as you can see that coin is worth considerably more if uncirculated).

Thank you for your interest, and we are sorry that we could not have been more help to you.

Hi, my name is Jeffrey Khoo and I have these 18^th century Chinese silver dollars and this 1884 Mexican Libertad silver dollar that I wish to authenticate. How do I go about doing this?

I’m sorry for the delay in answering your email question! I hope this isn’t a joke or a trick question? First, we known nothing about 18^th Century Chinese Silver Dollars, so we are unable to tell you anything about these coins.

Second, you sent only a scan from the Eagle side of the supposed 1884 Mexican Libertad Silver Dollar, and while I have collected these coins for over 25 years I have never seen anything like this Eagle on any Mexican Coin. I have no idea what you have? If you would send scans of both sides of the coin I will try to figure out what you have. Now let me say something else at this time, if the coin came from the Far East it is in all likelihood a modern fake, and not a real good one at that. Or it may possibly be a Pattern or Trial Strike for a proposed new design or style. But without actually seeing the coin I can’t tell you more.

My name is Christopher Bolton and I am the editor/publisher of a Spanish language numismatic bulletin titled La Ceca.

I am currently working on a Bibliography of Mexican Numismatic Literature. It will be Quarto sized, spiral bound and printed on a high quality laser printer. It will have b/w text illustrations as well as 8 pages of full color offset printed illustrations of the most outstanding works ever written (at least in my opinion).

I am working the auction catalogue section and while I have some 200 catalogues in my collection, it is by no means complete. Several Mexican collectors are collaborating with me on this. However, I see from your excellent website, that you have a well researched auction catalogue reference library. Would you be willing to share any of that information with me, I can only offer you some copies of the finished book and full credit in the acknowledgement section of the book.

On the other hand, my small numismatic library is at your disposal for research. I also have wish lists for several clients and if there is anything you need or want, please let me know.

I also see that you are translating Alberto Pradeau's Historia Numismática ... If you need any help there, please let me know as I do freelance translation work here in Mexico (it pays the bills at least). As an aside I have a bachelor's degree in Latin American Studies from Portsmouth University in England.

Christopher; it’s good to hear from you. I’m always willing to help others spreading the word for the advancement of Mexican Numismatics. Let me run through your questions first:

(1) I have thousands of coin auction catalogs from all over the world, but I’m behind by about a thousand in entering them in my database. Attached you will find an excel attachment with my current listings. Please note that I use this listing as the starting place for my population study for the Mexican Republican Gold Coins. When I originally (1986) started this project I only collected data about the Hand on Book 8 Escudos. Since I retired a number of years ago I have been going back to pick additional data about all Republican Gold Coins and other large collections of Mexican Republic Coins. Once retired I have started the website and FoxLair Reference Collections so I have fallen behind on keeping this file updated.

(2) I have several hundred books on numismatics and Mexican history and buy everything new and old that I can find. Attached you will find an excel attachment with my current listings. Again I’m way behind updating this file too.

Also note the two articles found in Mexican Coin Magic that may also help you. The first is in Volume 1 Issue 2 (104) The Collector’s Corner: Building a good Mexican Numismatic Library and the second is in Volume 2 Issue 8 (804) The Collector’s Corner: Collecting Coin Auction Catalogs Part 1: The Great 8 Escudo Sales.

I have followed from time to time the Mexican Coin Magic site. I especially like the columns on Mexican history and biographies.

My question is about the authenticity of 2 "municipal tokens" attached. My assumption is that the Jalapa coin is counterfeit. I am not sure of the Colima coin; it is not mentioned in Rulau or Grove as being dated 1823. I am especially interested if either or both are contemporary counterfeits, instead of modern counterfeits, because I am interested in counterfeits that were made during the early republic years. Any tips you might have would be appreciated.

Also, as mentioned on the site, in case you publish this letter, I would prefer to remain anonymous.

You have struck an open wound here at Mexican Coin Magic! I’m sorry to say we have no resident expert at this time on “municipal tokens” here on the website. Therefore I’m publishing your scans in hope that someone with some expertise may contact us with information about your tokens.

If you have any information about the tokens Mr. Anonymous has questions about contact us at Mcmanswers@aol.com. Please mention you are trying answer Mr. Anonymous questions.

Publisher’s Note: We have been pleading with our readers, who have areas of interest where we lack advanced collectors, to join with us to supply information, write articles, and answer our reader’s questions. We desperately need help in the following areas:

If you are interested in being part of the Mexican Coin Magic staff on any of these subjects, why not contact us at MexCoinMagic@aol.com. Your help and expertise will be greatly appreciated by our worldwide readership, and I’m sure you will find it very rewarding even though the salary is non existent. If you are interested in helping spread the word just let us know.

Hi. I have some two or three thousand old Mexican coins that i would like to sell. My father and me continued making this collection since my grandfather started it. I obviously have coins in every possible condition from all over the Mexican republic starting around 1760.

I would not be interested in selling a few selected pieces, but the whole lot. Most of the most important coins have already been separated, but a lot of work has still to be done.

If you are interested in spending a week or so in Mexico City to check the collection and are willing to make a good offer and pay cash, please contact me.

Best regards:
Ignacio

If you are interested in traveling to Mexico City to see this large collection contact us at to MexCoinMagic@aol.com and we will put you in contact with Ignacio.

I bought this coin in china, so I'm kinda doubtful of its authenticity, given that I'm in the land of the cheap copy. But after much reading on the coin, I can't find any obvious (to the novice) signs of forgery, which is unusual for the Chinese since their fakes are often more obvious.

The coin is silver in color (I can't tell if its genuine or another metal alloy) its about 38-39mm across

one side has the eagle and serpent and says "Republica Mexicana" the other side a starburst pattern (i've seen it in other pictures) and i'm fairly sure the rock looking thing in the center says "LIBERTAD", but only the "tad" is really clear. at the bottom it says "8R. Z. (with a superscript s)1882. J (or possibly I, though the bottom doesn't match the top so i think its a J) S. 10D(superscript s). 20G (superscript s). it has a milled edge, and is about 2mm thick.

If you can help me out, or even let me know another way to test it, that would be great!

I’m sorry, but is almost impossible to tell if your Zacatecas Z^S 1882 JS 8 Reales is real or a Chinese Fake without seeing the actual coin. Many Mexican 8 Reales from all periods were shipped to China and saw much usage there. Most legitimate Mexican 8 Reales will have Chinese Chop Marks on them, but not all of them. Chop marks were added by the different Chinese merchants and bankers as the coins traveled across China.

The coin you have isn’t rare, thus not worth a lot of money (prices range from silver melt to about $100 for Choice Mint State coins), so I would keep it as a pocket piece of your travels until you return home where it can be examined by an expert to give you an opinion as to its authenticity.

We really don’t feel qualified (see Answer #9 above) to comment on your coin. Maybe one of our readers will be able to help you. If you would like to help Russ and Donna, look at their scans and contact us at to MexCoinMagic@aol.com with your answer and we will forward it to them.

My name is Jeff and live in Ixtapa-Zihuatanejo, Mexico. I recently purchased an 1848 4R Pi Am with a Mo counter stamp and I have attached a photograph. I was hoping to learn more about the counter stamp. Is it an official counterstamp from the Mo mint? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

We saw this coin on eBay too. Kirk and I talked about it before the auction was completed. I have seen this counterstamp before, but never on a coin this rare before. I personally don’t think this is an “official counterstamp” from the Mexico City, or any other mint.

I’m publishing the photos of your coin here on our website so that someone, who has better information may give us a heads up on the countermark. If you know anything about this counterstamp contact us at MexCoinMagic@aol.com and we will give you Jeff’s email address.

I have found among an assortment of Mexican gold coins one which is denominated as " 2 Es" (the "s" is above a dot; the denomination is flanked by two single stars; the placement is beneath the draped coat of arms of "REINA DE LAS ESPANAS".

The face of the coin depicts ISABEL 2 (with what looks like a mint mark "A" over a dot). The script continues “POR LA G.” and concludes "DE DIOS Y LA CONST."

I haven't been able to find any information about this coin, although it is listed in the EEC investment exemption table.

I’m not sure, but I believe your coin is probably from Spain or one of her colonies. But I am sure it isn’t a Mexican coin. I’ve tried to find more information about it, to no avail, so if any of our readers know anything about Bruce’s coin contact us at MexCoinMagic@aol.com and we will put you in contact with Bruce.

Thanks for your question; sorry we weren’t able to answer your question.

Ralph Poucher

Dear Ralph,

There is a small question that has always been on the back of my mind. I wanted to look into it, but haven't gotten to it yet, and I would like to ask you as an expert of the series.

In the introduction to "Resplandores", the authors talk about the history of catalogs of the 8 reales coinage. One of the things that stuck to my mind was that Neil Utberg, when he wrote his catalogs, deliberately included coins that did not exist, so he could later on tell whether other authors had simply copied his work or had done their own research.

One of the results was that there were actually such coins appearing in the market - counterfeiters had read Utberg's work and provided these apparently very rare DAMs.

Now my questions are which coins Utberg "invented" (okay, that should be easy to find out), but more importantly, if there really are such known counterfeits.

I assume they would make very interesting show-and-tell pieces for numismatists.

Do you know anything about this story?

With best regards,
Ralf

Another great question! I too have heard the rumors about Utberg putting false coins in his lists to keep people from stealing his research. I personally never met Neil, so I don’t feel qualified to directly comment on whether or not he would do something like this. I have talked to several people who personally knew Utberg; none of them believe he would have purposely tried to lead collectors astray, but each said he might have done it in order to find out who was copying his work.

Just remember Utberg was at the forefront of Mexican Numismatic Research during his time and he traveled and talked to many collectors all over Mexico and here in the Rio Grande Valley. Many times you will find coins listed in early works, such as his and Henry Christensen, that haven’t as yet been proven to exist, or some coins that aren’t counterfeits. As a researcher we ask other collectors to supply us with lists of coins and their grades they have in their collections. There were many thousands, if not millions, of contemporary counterfeit 8 Reales made worldwide, so sometimes even advanced collectors can be fooled by these spurious coins.

Many times contemporary counterfeit 8 Reales were made with full weight, fineness, and with good dies to bypass taxes, or to alleviate shortages in the worldwide market for Mexican 8 Reales. For more information about this see article (1003) Untold Stories: A Mexican Mint in the USA? Part 1: What Happened in San Francisco in this issue.

We hope to cover contemporary counterfeits and modern fakes a lot more in future issues of Mexican Coin Magic, so stay tuned to this channel. I have also asked someone who knew Neil Utberg well to do a profile about him in a future issue of The Great Mexican Numismatic Historians & Writers.

Enjoy your column very much. I recently came into ownership of an 1845 Do RM Eight Reales piece. It came advertised as a 45/35 overdate. However, I see no obvious match of this coin with DP's pictures of the 45/35 or the 45/31 overdates (see DP Do22).

Additionally, it has the European Eagle, which DP implies is only evidenced by the 1845/31.

Moreover, on the Cap side, I see die clashes at 1:00 o’clock where a portion of a reverse wreath shows. (see photo). Because of the old style of reverse orientation on this coin, I am perplexed at how clashing could have put the wreath "up there"!? Unless the obverse die had been previously clashed with another reverse die of the modern orientation with respect to the obverse (180 degrees different)?

Finally, DP goes on to say that "the variety with the European Eagle is very rare" and that "the few known examples of the European style are in the Very Fine range." Have I made a "find" or what?

Subject: Re: 1845 DoRM Eight Reales

Karl

Sorry for the delay in answering your emails, but I've been busier than a duck chasing a June Bug lately.

About your Do 1845 RM 8 Reales; good work on securing this extreme rarity. Your specimen now makes four coins from the full Paris Style I'm aware of at this time. You are correct, your coin isn't a FoxLair Variety Do-1845-1101, which is a 45/31 Overdate. From your great scans it appears to be a FoxLair Variety Do-1845-1102 that is a 4/4/3 OverDate.

It is rather amazing that two different die pairs for this coin have survived. I'm currently updating the FoxLair Reference Collections 8 Reales and I'm attaching the Durango one (without scans) for your use even though it isn't finished yet. Enjoy!

D&P did not include all known varieties in Resplandores, which is one of the reasons I withdrew as one of the authors and just became a contributor. Since then I have been working on Reference Collections for all Mexican Republic Coins.

You are probably correct in your theory about the die clash occurring during an earlier usage, but who knows. As for the orientation of the dies; many people make a big deal out of this, but I personally see little in all of the hullabaloo about die rotation as most of the mints early coins move around and very few are strictly Coin or Medal Axis. I've seen a few of the early Mexican dies and none had flats or were draw bar type dies that would have made the die orientation fixed each time the dies were inserted in to a coin press.

Yes, Karl you have made a "find" as you will see from the attached file.

Good questions and thanks for them. I hope this info helps answer some of your questions?

Ralph Poucher

I recently acquired at a nearby coin show an Army of North peso in what I consider lustrous AU-Unc. I was attracted to this coin for an unknown reason at the time because I had a choice BU piece already in the lock box.

When I came home and compared with a picture of my BU specimen (ex Richard A. Long sold as "Ch BU" to me), I realized why I was attracted to it. First, it was better struck especially on the obverse peripheries. Also, the "SALAZAR" on the obverse was much clearer on the obverse of the AU piece. AND, "SEVILLA" appears boldly on the reverse near the cactus on the recently acquired piece. While "SEVILLA" may (not sure) appear weakly on my BU piece, it is faint indeed, if it is there at all.

Is there a variety here, or was the AU piece just an extremely early die state in your estimation?

Hello Karl, this is Dave Busse, one of Ralph's cohorts who has also been bitten by the Mexican Coin Bug. Ralph sent your email to me and requested that I respond to your query.

In studying the reproductions it appears that you have two coins from two different die pairings. In addition, there are Striking differences. One suspects those may be due to uneven planchets. There is no doubt that the "AU/UNC" piece has a stronger strike even though it seems there is a die crack/cud running through "902" in the Cap Side Legend.

In my opinion the one you recently acquired was struck with dies that are were not as worn as those used to strike the piece you purchased from Richard.

I have never seen one without SALAZAR or SEVILLA though they may well exist due to the working conditions under which the dies were prepared. Like you I have seen some examples where one, or the other or both were barely evident, again I feel that is due to a combination of die wear, strike and the planchet being uneven.

Please feel free to contact me anytime you think I may be of help, or if you just want to Talk Mex.

PS If you have any nice High Grade Silver Real Minors of the Republic we would appreciate you sending them to Ralph so that we may study and make reproductions of them. We are in the process of writing a book about those coins and trying to upgrade the Reference Collection information whenever possible. We pay postage both ways and will credit you or let you remain anonymous, whichever you like.

I have a question about a coin I have. It says 1894 on the back w/ 50c under it and then scrolling.

It also says Estados Unidos Mexicanos on the front w/ an eagle and more scrolling.

I'm at a loss at what you have. The date (1894) should make the coin appear in the decimal period and the 50c indicates it is supposed to be a 50 Centavo. But the Estados Unidos Mexicanos foretells as having been made after the coinage reform of 1905. Thus I don't know what your coin is, but then I'm not an expert on the 50 Centavos.

Maybe one of our readers knowns something more? If you have an answer to Brandi's question why don't you contact us at MexCoinMagic@aol.com, and we will pass on the information to the Wolf Pack lady.

Thanks for your question; I'm sorry we don't have a good answer for your question.

Good Morning. I have become guardian of a couple of Mexican coins and would like your input please.

AND I NEED TO FIND OUT IF THESE ARE WORTH INCREASING ANY INSURANCE TO COVER THE WORTH OR DO I JUST HAVE COUPLE NICE “OLD” COINS?

MY DAD LEFT THESE TO ME AND I’M NOT REAL SURE WHAT TO DO WITH THEM EXCEPT ENJOY THE FACT THAT THEY ARE OLD, BUT WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAFE

Another good question, for which I have no answer. All I can tell you for sure is that your coin wasn't created at any of the Mexican Mints that I'm aware of.

If any of our readers are experts in Spanish coins maybe you can tell us what Mr. Hoffman has and its value?

Why does a Mexican coin book show 1908, 1909 1 Peso Caballitos are they real? it also shows Caballito 50c from same dates?

The coins you question are considered to be patterns or trial strikes and as such are extreme rarities. Yes, they are real, and all are very highly sought after by collectors and are very expensive.

I have a collection of silver $5.00 coins in plastic cases that hold seven coins. I will give you a short list: 1947-48 Cuauhtemoc, 1950 Railroad-Locomotive, 1953 200th Anniversary Birth of Hidalgo, 1951-54 Hidalgo & Wreath, 1955-57 Hidalgo Chico, 1957 Juarez-Constitution, 1959 Carranza.

You have a rather common Guanajuato 8 Reales; this coin can be worth from silver melt to as much as $150 depending on its overall grade, condition, and how well it is struck. The "8R" means it is valued at eight reales, the "G" is the mintmark (be sure to look at the coin closely there should be a small "o" within the "G") for the Guanajuato mint, the "PF" is the assayer's initials (the person or people responsible for making this coin), and finally the "10Ds. 20Gs." is the fineness of the silver found in the coin.

Recently we had a question from Mike, in Houston, about a Mexican 1823 8 Reales; its rarity and value. Over the course of several emails we discovered it was a lower-grade common Iturbide 8 Reales. See scans below:

I’m reprinting our first answer here so you may see how we try to go about finding out more information from our readers about their coins when they don’t give us enough information to properly answer their questions.

Hello Mike,
Glad to hear from you. Now to your question...

Without seeing your coin, or scans of the coin, it is very difficult to put a price on it. First, I have to assume it is from Mexico? If so, there are several different 8 Reales for 1823: (1) There are a couple of varieties of the Iturbide 8 Reales (2) The same goes for the Republic 8 Reales. Depending on which coin and variety means a great difference in the value as does the grade and condition.

Now let me help you better describe the coin for me:
(1) The Iturbide 8 Reales have an impression of Iturbide on one side; the other has an eagle with a crown on its head
(2) The Republic 8 Reales has a large Cap with the rays of the sun under it; the other an eagle without a crown

All Mexican 1823 8 Reales are rare; some varieties are much rarer than others! Current coin price catalogs list prices from as low as $50.00, in low grade to a high of $8,000 in Mint State. As you can see there is a great difference in these prices. Therefore you have a coin worth some money; maybe a great deal of money.

Depending on how fast you want better information you have a couple of ways to go:
(A) You can scan or photograph the coin and email the results to me, I will then give you an approximate value of the coin.
(B) You can mail me the coin and I will give you a value of the coin and offer you a certain price for the coin.
(C) You can contact one of the guys that is a contributor to our website in Houston and make arrangements to meet with him and show him the coin. He will contact me by phone, with you present if you want, and tell me about the coin. I will then make you an offer and have him cut you a check for it if you like the offer.
(D) You can take the coin to local coin shop in Houston and have them make you an offer for the coin.

Let me warn you that you want to make sure you are getting the best price for the coin and that a correct attribution of the coin is made before you sell it because it could be very valuable.

Normally I offer the highest prices paid (generally several times more than listed in the current catalogs) for Mexican coins in the USA. And I can give you references if you need them from many sellers. But beware and don't take my word as gospel.

I hope I have helped answer your questions? If you would like to contact my coin-collecting buddy in Houston, call me (956-943-8409) and I will call him for you and put you in direct contact with him.

By the way I will be in Houston for The Houston Money Show at the end of November and would love to meet you.

Over & Out from Paradise
Ralph Poucher
Publisher of Mexican Coin Magic

PS If you don't mind, would you tell me how you found us?

Question #24:

I got this medals from Mexico, its a complete collection i have no idea of their value do you have an idea?

Hello Senor Costilla, they sure are pretty. I assume you are saying that each medal has two (2) ounces of silver.

I would be willing to pay $30 each. The total would be $150. That is because I would keep them. If buying to resell I would not be able to offer more than melt. Modern as well as Republic and/or Colonial medals are hard to sell. There is a small collector base for medals and most of the serious collectors already have most of the medals issued by Casa de Moneda de Mexico.

I just sold nine (9) similar modern medals - they weighed 1 ounce each - at $14 each at the TNA Show in Fort Worth last weekend which means I made $2 a piece as I paid melt for them back in January.

If you want to sell them, let me know. Also, if would like me to take them on consignment I would split any profit with you - after paying you melt - when I sell them. However, that may take a while.

I read some of your online guides in reference to your proposed numbering system of Mexican coins utilizing DAM ... this has been an area of interest for me for years ... in your opinion what are some of the rarer DAM combinations?

Greg

I’m afraid your question is all too consuming. In order to try to answer your question properly we have to know what series of coins you are talking about. There is no way we could possibly list all of the rare Mexican Coins from all the different periods or denominations on the website as it would take over a hundred pages to just get started. If you can be more specific maybe we can help?

Sometime during the summer 2007 we received a letter with poor photocopies of an early Pillar Dollar. From these poor copies the coin appeared to be a sea salvage coin. The letter arrived in an unmarked envelope and remained on unopened on my desk for several weeks (my wife or grandson put it with a stack of bills they picked up at the post office one day for me). I finally found it, answered it, but have never again heard from Miguel again.

First, let me apologize for the delay in answering your question, most of our readers use emails to contact us, so I see them everyday when I open my computer. Somehow your letter got shuffled aside and I just found it again.

The Mexican 1732 and 1733 8 Reales are a “hot” subject here, at Mexican Coin Magic, and everywhere because there is so much controversy about them. First, the photocopies you sent of the coin are not good enough to tell a whole lot about the coin. It appears to be a sea-salvage coin, but I can’t be sure? The vast majority of them are sea-salvage, so this isn’t anything to worry about.

The latest, and most authoritative work on the Pillar Coinage was published in 1999 and was written by Frank F. Gilboy and published by his son after Mr. Gilboy died in 1993. The book is titled The Milled Columnarios of Central and South America- Spanish American Pillar Coinage, 1732 to 1772- and is the best place to find good pictures of these coins. Mr. Gilboy traveled extensively in Latin America where he gathered not only coins but also much information about all of the Pillar coinage.

All of the 1732 and 1733 Pillar Dollars from Mexico are very rare in differing degrees. Most experts, who I’m not, recognize only two die pairs for the 1732 8 Reales. I personally doubt this hypothesis as I personally have two Mexican 1732 and 1733 8 Reales that came from the group found by the late Mel Fisher that most experts think that Fisher had manufactured. This is where much of the controversy comes into play. Did Mel Fisher in truth have the resources to make these coins? Again I personally doubt it simply because he was much too busy trying to find the Atocha wreck site.

This controversy caused Fisher many problems and you will find it well covered in another book titled Treasure: The Story of the most successful and most tragic treasure hunt of modern times by Robert Daly published in 1977. We also covered this subject and tried to get Mexican Numismatists worldwide who own these coins to get together enough examples of these coins to do a scientific non-destructive test of these coins in Issue #4 (409) Feature Article: Mel Fisher: Modern Day Villain or Misguided Treasure Hunter on our website www.mexicancoinmagic.com.

However, we were unsuccessful in this attempt because many experts have opinions about these coins that they don’t want changed! Greed has a lot to do with their opinions and their egos also come into play. I would recommend you read all of the information mentioned above if you would like to know more about these coins.

Now back to your coin, without having access to your coin personally, or at least good clear photographs or scans, it is very difficult to give you an opinion about it: (1) Is it one of the two accepted die pairs or (2) Is it one of the Fisher coins? Is it worth anything? You can bet your bippy it is, but I can’t even begin to put a price on it without seeing it. Current selling prices range from a high of $30,000+ in high-grade to a low of about $1,500 for a badly corroded coin … if it is one of the recognized die pairs. However, if it is one of the Fisher coins, it is currently almost worthless except to counterfeit collectors. Fear not; even these coins can bring $500 or more when sold to a collector.

Miguel I hope I have helped answer your questions, at least a little. If you would like us to look at the coin and give you a better idea of its value give me a call at the phone number listed above.

This ends the question and answer section for this issue, and for those of you who don't see your question answered this time, we promise to get to it in Issue #11.